Sunday, June 5, 2011

The Trinity

1) Nowhere in the Scriptures is God referred to or called a “Trinity

Again, I have conceded the term Trinity has never been used. But if you study your Bible, and compile together all the references of the Father as God, Jesus as God, the Holy Spirit as God, you will come up with the concept of the Trinity

After compiling your Bible study, you do not have to refer to your concept of God, but you will have to admit, there are plenty of verses as I will cover as I answer your questions below

2) The number “three” is never used in reference to Who or What God is

Several times in the Bible, God referred himself in plural, Why is that? Elohim itself is a plural name for God

Gen. 1:26: " And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

Gen. 3:22:" And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,"

Gen.11:7: ..." let us go down, and there confound their language,"'

Who is the others? It cannot be angels, since Angels were created too. Is there a specific number? Even disregarding the New Testament verses stating specifically "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" there is plenty of evidence of "three"

Isaiah 48:16 "from the beginning from the time that it was, I was there:( 1st person) and now the Lord GOD (2nd person) and his Spirit, (3rd person) hath sent me(1st person)."

John 1:1 is similar "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Speaking of Creation, can we agree that God created the heavens and the Earth?

But then, the Holy Spirit played a big role in Creation too (see below on the Holy Spirit)

Oh wait! Jesus is the creator too!
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds"

Colossians 1:16"16: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"

Surely by now you can see, scripturally, you may not agree on "three", but you would have to concede there is more than one or two creators scripturally. Perhaps if you can show me a fourth character or a fifth character? Then maybe I will agree its not "three"

Surely being the Creator is a definitive sign of being God, right?

3) God is never called or referred to as a “person”

To be honest, I don't know what you definition of a "person" is.

The fact that the God of the Bible is not a impersonal force of the universe, rather having attributes such as self awareness, having relationships, plans and goals, that he LOVES us enough to sacrifice his Son (himself in mortal form) does imply that God has the attributes to be described if human as a person.

Perhaps you can put down a criteria of personhood besides "not being God", and I will try to answer this

4) The Holy Spirit is never called “God”

I) Jesus and the Bible called himself the Son of God, but Mary was in fact inpregnated by the Holy Spirit

Matthew 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

Luke 1:34-35 "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

If the Holy Spirit isn't God, Jesus should be called the Son of the Holy Spirit, not the Son of God, don't you agree?

II) The Holy Spirit was the one that gave life and took part in Creation

a) During Creation
"And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters" (Genesis 1:2).
The root meaning of the word used for Spirit here is "wind" or "breath". God's Spirit is compared to the wind blowing across the waters. The Spirit of God was present in an active way.

b) All creatures received life from the Holy Spirit
"You hide Your face, they are troubled; You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust. You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the earth" (Psalm 104:29,30).

c) Man's spirit and life came from and depend on the Holy Spirit
"Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him" (Zechariah 12:1).

"Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

"The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life" (Job 33:4).

"If He should set His heart on it, if He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust" (Job 34:14,15).

There's more like Ezekiel 37, but you get the idea. Its the Holy Spirit that gave life. So if the Holy Spirit isn't God, does that mean God didn't give life?

III) Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God


Acts 5:-3-4 "“Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? . . . You have not lied to men; but to God.”

IV) Scripture is God inspired, moved by the Holy Spirit


2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”;

2 Peter 1:21 “For prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

5) Since Christ is the Son, He cannot also be the Father or be coequal with his Father, Christ plainly said:

“My Father is GREATER than I” (John 14:28)

Regarding your verse John 14:28. Of course that WAS correct. If Jesus really is God who came down in the flesh without all his Godly powers, surely God without Godly powers is lesser than God WITH all his powers? Nothing to dispute there

How about who Jesus was before and after his life on Earth 2000 years ago?

As above I have already covered Jesus being the Creator, as God and the Holy Spirit were also the Creator.

Near the end,
Revelations 5:13-14 shows all of Creation worshipping Jesus as God


"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever."

So is Jesus co-equal with his Father? He is co-creator, and ALL creation bows down before him in the end.

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